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Society Builders.

Society Builders with your host Duane Varan.

(Duane) Welcome to another exciting 
episode of Society Builders and thanks

for joining the conversation, 
for social transformation.

In our last episode we began our journey 
of summarizing what we ve been learning

about the science of depolarization over 
the past few episodes and then working to

understand what Baha i-inspired approaches 
to such depolarization might look like.

And, of course, the challenge of 
sharing all of this is something

that was too much to cover in a 
single episode, so we re exploring

this theme across a series of episodes. And today 
s episode is the second part of this series.

In our last episode we started with the first 
theme we ll be exploring in this context and

that focused on what we can do to both limit the 
effects of polarized content in our own lives and

how we should be on guard to not further propagate 
such content. Remember, polarization is a social

pollutant. If we live in society if we interact 
with society we re going to be breathing polarized

content every day. So in the same way that we have 
become more aware of what we eat in recent years,

looking at counting our calories and scrutinizing 
ingredients in this same way, we also have to

become more aware of the content we consume and 
limit the toxic polarized content in our diet.

But we also need to be sensitized to the fact 
that because we breathe in such social pollutants,

we are also often transmitters of polarized 
content, despite our best intent. And so we also

need to become more aware of our own expression 
working towards what the Universal House of

Justice frames as an etiquette of expression 
becoming guarded in the content, volume,

and style of our expression, while exercising 
tact, wisdom and timeliness in our response.

So depolarization starts with us.

Today, we continue our journey as we explore 
a few more themes reflected in Baha i-inspired

approaches to depolarization. Specifically, 
we ll explore how polarization dehumanizes the

other and what we can do to help rehumanize that 
equation. And we ll explore how we can enhance

our capacity to listen and understand others, 
which are critical to effective depolarization.

So there s a lot of exciting gems 
there for us to discover today.

(musical interlude)

A key feature of toxic polarization is that 
it often dehumanizes the other. We become

desensitized to the other. It s like we don t 
really care how they feel and this isn t a view

we form after critical reflection we re operating 
in auto pilot. We re guided by our impulse and

so unconsciously we prejudge the other and treat 
them different to how we would like to be treated.

Now I emphasize that all of this is happening 
at a subconscious level. And this is precisely

why it s so easy for us to fall in this trap 
and become a victim to it. I say victim here

because we don t want this outcome we don t 
want to be perpetrators of polarization - so

even as perpetrators, we are victims too because 
it conflicts with the person we truly want to be.

Addressing this issue is simple on one hand 
and complex on the other. It s relatively

easy to help people become aware of their 
propensity to dehumanize another but it

s much harder getting them to rehumanize the 
other. And this is our particular challenge.

Now to start our exploration, let s go back 
to episode 20 and listen to Amanda Ripley as

she shares this delightful story about how 
Nelson Mandela approached this challenge.

(Amanda Ripley) So over time, he learned to really

resist those impulses, and he in particular, 
got really good at learning to never,

ever humiliate your opponent to the contrary, 
to actually speak to them in their language.

I think the anecdote you're referencing is after 
he got out of prison, while he was in prison,

he learned Afrikaans, he learned how 
to speak the language of his oppressor,

which was hugely and is hugely controversial. 
Right. Among yeah. So fascinating.

Yeah, because it's like, why should he have 
to there's a million things you could say

about that. But anyway, he very purposefully 
wanted to speak their language. And he has

another quote, which is basically, you can 
speak to a man's head if you speak to him in

a language you understand, but if you speak to 
him in his language, you can speak to his heart.

But when this high ranking official came to 
his home, as is, after he's out of prison,

and they wanted to negotiate something, and this 
particular official was a known overt racist,

it was not implicit. And Mandela had invited 
him into his home, and when he got there,

he started speaking to him in his own language, 
which takes the official by surprise, of course.

And then he asked him if he'd like some tea.

He says, 'yes', and then he 
begins to prepare the tea for him.

Now, Mandela had staff at this point, 
right. There were people there who

could do that sort of thing, but he 
very intentionally did it himself.

And it was these small things he did in order 
to interrupt the dance that they were in of

high conflict, to take him by surprise, so 
that there was a little bit of humanity.

And when you see your opponent as a human and vice 
versa, it is harder to dehumanize them. Right.

(Duane) I think this is a great starting point for

our conversation. It helps 
us visualize the challenge.

And similarly, I think the whole story that 
Rabbi Roly Matalon shares with us in episode

23 about the exchange he facilitated between 
members of his congregation and people who

s views were at the other extreme of his 
own, really highlights the value of this

kind of rehumanization. Just to remind you 
his congregation was deeply left-leaning,

progressive liberals and they were distraught 
when Trump was first elected. So he organized

an exchange with a group of prison-guards 
who were deep Maga Republicans where his

group spent almost a week living with them in 
rural Michigan and then they came up to New

York to live with his congregation all part 
of an effort to better understand the other.

And Rabbi Roly explains in our interview how 
this act of trying to appreciate the other

is a spiritual principle. Let s listen in as 
he explains why this is a spiritual problem:

(Rabbi Roly)
It is a spiritual

problem because it is a problem about 
discovering another person's humanity.

Humanity and the human soul are spiritual 
issues, right? So just to hear somebody else,

to understand, to relate, not just to 
dismiss because you have different political

ideas, but just to try to understand, 
number one, that's a spiritual issue.

And look at the effect this all had. Rabbi 
Roly summarizes this impact in telling the

story about how shortly after an atrocity in which 
members of a Jewish congregation were killed in a

synagogue in Pittsburg, how these deep red Maga 
Republicans that he had facilitated the exchange

with then sent a delegation to express their 
solidarity. Again, let s listen in on his story:

(Rabbi Roly)
So two days later

we are on a phone call and they said, we 
are so shocked by what happened because

now we know Jews and we feel you're 
our family. And so an attack on a

synagogue is an attack on all of us, on our 
family. I am so moved as I'm saying this.

(Duane) Amazing!

(Rabbi Roly) Right!
(Duane) Yeah.

(Rabbi Roly) Before we knew you Jews were Jews. 
After we met you, you're our family. So we are

outraged. We are going to write a statement and 
so on. We would like to come to the synagogue

to send a delegation to the synagogue the 
following week to express our solidarity

and to read a statement before the congregation 
and to denounce the anti-semitism in our country.

(Duane) I mean, this story is 
so incredibly moving, right?

Rabbi Roly s congregation didn t 
go Maga. The Republicans didn t go

Democrat. Their fundamental views hadn 
t changed. But what did change was that

they came to view the humanity in 
each other they were rehumanized.

And I want to take this now to its extreme. Even 
when you re interacting with people who have done

terrible, terrible thing IF you want to see 
a path forward if you want to see progress

towards depolarization then you have to 
be able to see that person s humanity.

You have to be able to see the best in 
them. And clearly this is no easy feat.

I think Andrea Bartoli really illustrated 
this when he was talking about the process

of building peace in civil war-torn Mozambique. 
That task required him and others to sit and

mediate with people who had committed the 
most horrific acts possible but to find a

path forward he had to accompany them. Now this 
wasn t easy for him in fact, he positions this

as the most challenging part of his work but 
it s critical to navigating a journey forward.

And this is all about helping a person 
in THEIR journey accompanying them in

expanding the horizons associated 
with their own aspirations. And

this is the challenge for both friend 
and foe alike to help accompany them.

Let s listen to him as he describes 
this journey of accompaniment:

(Andrea Bartoli) So there is an interesting 
gift in accompaniment that enriches our

lives tremendously, because those who 
accompany are not guiding. Those who

are accompanying are not imposing. Those 
who are accompanying are not oppressing.

Those who are accompanying are really 
accompanying. They are the space we

need to be who we are. They are the 
presence we need to be who we are.

So what we saw over and over again 
with the elderly, with the immigrants,

with the kids, really with everybody. That 
accompaniment is fundamentally transforming.

And of course, it transforms both. It 
transforms the one that is accompanied,

but also the one that accompanies. Right. There 
is a very strong, natural bond in accompaniment.

(Duane) And, of course, Baha is will 
immediately recognize this as so much

effort over the past 25 years has been placed 
in helping us learn to accompany others.

This challenge of re-tuning our framework of 
rehumanizing the other of learning to accompany

the other - is one of the greatest challenges 
in depolarization. So how do we do this?

And here, one of the most effective strategies 
is to awaken a different identity within us. We

all live with multiple identities. When we go to 
a sporting match cheering for our favorite team,

we awaken an identity. At home, we awaken 
another. At work, yet another. In each of

these environments, there are norms and we are 
constantly engaged in a negotiation between who

we believe ourselves to be who we want to be 
- and who others in our midst expect us to be.

And this was a theme that Amanda Ripley 
shared with us in episode 20 about how

people become entrenched in the identities 
tied to their conflicts and how a big

part of getting out was to awaken other latent 
identities from within. Like how Sandra,

a FARC rebel, had to rediscover her identity 
as a mother to help escape her conflict.

The path to rehumanization often requires us 
to awaken a different identity in ourselves

so we can reframe how we conceptualize the other.

So in the same way that the FARC rebel needs 
to awaken her identity as mother in her path to

rehumanizing the other, we too need to awaken an 
identity in this task and what identity is that?

You guessed it it s our spiritual identity 
it s our identity as a Baha i. And this is

a theme that the Universal House of Justice 
has been emphasizing in its recent messages:

a focus on identity and reinforcing and 
cultivating our spiritual identity on

finding coherence in our lives a balance 
between our material and spiritual selves.

And part of that Baha i identity is this business 
of learning not to judge others. Of seeing the

humanity in others. Remember that story when 
someone asked Abdul-Baha how He could be kind

to everyone and He replied that in every face 
He looks into, He sees the face of His Father.

And this isn t just a Baha i thing. It s a 
spiritual thing. To me, one of the clearest

indicators of whether a person s faith is a 
positive or negative influence is whether it is

a source of a person judging themselves or whether 
it s a yardstick for judging others. When it s a

tool for judging yourself it s amazing you become 
a better person every day. But when it s a vehicle

for judging others, it s a harmful influence 
in my opinion at least. For me that s the acid

test. Is your faith a yardstick for judging 
yourself or a yardstick for judging others?

So this business of not judging 
others, I think, is key to how

Baha is should approach depolarization it 
s critical to the path of rehumanization.

And one more thing here. One of the main 
strategies used by activists these days

to promote even very positive causes 
is cancel culture putting pressure on

others to not interact with a specific person 
because their views are at odds with yours.

Now I appreciate the noble intent here. It 
s a way that people are promoting what are

often very worthy principles principles 
we often agree with and want to promote

too. And it s easy to see how we 
might resort to this tactic in our

interaction with like-minded people taking 
a stand on an issue which we also uphold.

But despite the noble intent behind 
this we need to see cancel culture

for what it really is at it s core it s a path to

dehumanization. Because YOU disagree with 
someone, because you are in the right,

you are willing to brand THEM as an outcast. 
Personally, I think that sounds dehumanizing.

Again I appreciate the intent but I worry that 
it only adds fuel to the fire of polarization.

But hey, that s just my view you should 
reflect on this for yourself and ask

yourself what cancel culture does in this path 
of polarization. And if you agree with me here,

then you ll want to have heightened awareness 
again in your own media consumption. So you

re guarded against resorting to getting 
sucked into the gravity of cancel culture.

So rehumanizing is not easy. It requires 
critical reflection on our own actions,

it requires awakening our spiritual identity, 
it requires not judging others and seeing the

humanity in them, it requires accompaniment, and 
it requires critical reflection on the strategies

which others might employ in their pursuit 
of noble causes but which we need to question

because it might prove to be counter-productive.

Now that s a lot to reflect 
on. But it all starts with an

aspiration an aspiration to rehumanize the other.

(musical interlude)

Now another key tool for improving our ability 
to help depolarize is found in our capacity

to listen and understand others. And this is 
a skill a skill we can develop and perfect.

When people don t feel listened to when 
they don t feel understood they often

need to escalate speaking louder resorting to 
more aggressive language even more aggressive

means. Much of this is about something 
incredibly simple the need to be heard.

Now listening and understanding doesn t mean that 
you ll necessarily agree with their views. It

just means that people feel that you weighed their 
arguments that you gave it your due consideration.

Remember as Dr. Schirch helped us understand 
so much of this path to depolarization is

about neurophysiology. It s 
about the battle between our

reptile brain and our rational brain 
between our emotional self and our

rational self between our lower or material 
nature and our higher or divine nature.

So listening and understanding helps 
elevate conversation to a more rational

level where we can disagree with 
each other but disagree with respect.

And we were incredibly fortunate to be 
given a gift through the experience of

world-famous mediator, Gary Friedman, and 
that was in episode 22. And this was the

tool he shared which he calls looping a tool for 
helping us better listen and understand others.

Now looping is about actively listening to what 
a person says and then saying it back to them

in your own words and asking them whether you 
understood them correctly. And if you didn t,

looping back and getting them to explain it 
again until you re able to recite it back to

them to their satisfaction. That s a clear sign 
that you actually understand what they re saying.

And as Gary explains, this need 
to explain, in our own words,

what the other person says, ensures 
that we listen properly. He says this:

(Gary Friedman). You can't loop unless you 
listen, and you can't listen unless you've

turned your attention to now what's 
happening before you in this moment.

Learning to listen to others is an incredibly 
important skill for Baha is to develop in fact,

I think it s the one of the most important 
qualities in learning to share the Faith with

others. Many people think that effective 
teaching is about learning to perfect a

pitch about being a good public speaker 
about crafting good arguments. But in my

experience it s about learning to listen hear 
and understand a person s needs so that you

can guide them to fulfilling their aspiration 
so you can answer THEIR questions so you can

direct them to the wonderful and precious gifts 
in our Faith that intersect with their journeys.

I remember one learned Baha i once told me 
that Abdul-Baha once said that we should

reflect on why God gave us two ears but only 
one mouth. I ve never found that reference,

but it s such an interesting idea, right. That 
we should listen twice as much as we talk.

But clearly, Abdul-Baha was a master in the art of

listening. Here s a story that Colby Ives 
shares in his book, Portals to Freedom,

about his interaction with Abdul-Baha 
which illustrates this. He says:

I have heard certain people described as 
"good listeners," but never had I imagined

such a "listener" as Abdu l-Bah . It was more 
than a sympathetic absorption of what the ear

received. It was as though the two individualities 
became one; as if He so closely identified Himself

with the one speaking that a merging 
of spirits occurred which made a verbal

response almost unnecessary, superfluous. As 
I write, the words of Bah u ll h recur to me:

"When the sincere servant calls to Me 
in prayer I become the very ear with

which He heareth My reply That was just it! 
Abdu l-Bah seemed to listen with my ears.

How incredible, right! We have to listen with 
the other person s ears. I love that metaphor.

And, of course, listening is something 
we can actually train for. Amanda Ripley,

for example, recommended the 
research of Dr. Graham Bodie who,

among other things, found that people only 
feel listened to 5% of the time. Just 5%!

And researchers like Dr. Bodie offer courses 
to help people improve their listening skills.

You can search for his courses or for hundreds of 
others often called training for active listening.

So improving our capacity to 
listen and understand others

is another example of how we should 
approach depolarization as Baha is.

(musical interlude)

So we ve covered a lot of ground 
today as we explore Baha i-inspired

approaches to depolarization. But 
we still have more ground to cover.

In our next episode, we ll explore two 
more strategies toward depolarization

based on the scientific literature and 
we ll reflect on how Baha i principles

might further contribute to these approaches:

First, how to help break binaries 
narratives that reduce problems to

conflict between two opposing forces. 
And finally, we ll explore how we can

enhance the environments under which contact 
between antagonistic groups are facilitated.

Wow! That s going to be an exciting discussion.

So don t miss out!

Join me again next time as we continue our 
conversation for social transformation.

That s next time on Society Builders.

(Music). Society Builders pave the way
To a better world to a better day

A united approach to buil-ding a new society

There s a crisis facing humanity
People suffer from a lack of unity

It s time for a bet-ter p-ath to a new society

Join our conversation
For social transformation

Society Builders

So engage with your local communities
And explore all the exciting possibilities

We can elevate the atmosphere in which we move

The paradigm is shifting
It is so very uplifting

It s a new beat, a new song, a brand new groove

Join our conversation
For social transformation

Society Builders

The Baha i Faith has a lot to say
Helping people to discover a better way

With discourse and social action framed by un-i-ty

Now the time has come to lift our game

And apply the teachings of the Greatest Name
And rise to meet the glory of our destiny

Join our conversation
For social transformation

Society Builders

Join our conversation
For social transformation

Society Builders